Posts Tagged ‘Saturn Model’

Ancient Chaos

January 14, 2010

One problem I find with the Saturnian Model(s) and such is that they either disregard the myths of the world ages or they give no mechanism for the change of ages. Most simply have some unknown outside agent – i.e. comet or meteor – arrive to change the conditions.

Unfortunately, if they followed the mythologies closer they would see that most ancients mentioned the ages repeated on a cyclic basis, as if there were an established sequence. This means the objections I have mentioned about most doomsday theories on the Mayan Calendar End-Date apply here as well. The theories of random events to further along the Saturnian model disregard the ancient evidence.

Alfred de Grazia lamented in one of his works that he was probably the “last Velikovskian” since so many of the followers of Velikovsky have gone in other directions. I guess that makes two of us as I still think Velikovsky was essentially correct.

Dwardu Cardona said he used to think Velikovsky was correct in the big picture but incorrect in the details, but later changed his opinion to think he was correct in the details but wrong in the big picture.

So many of the catastrophist community has endorsed one or another of the Saturn models. Most endorse either the Talbott/Cardona (/Thornill/Cochrane) model wherein the Earth sat “beneath” the gas giant so that it appeared to be a “god of the North Pole” or the equally popular model that simply has the Earth as a satellite of Saturn. In both models, Saturn is seen as a “dark star” or possibly a binary partner to the Sun, although not in all models.

There is still no consensus on the matter.

One problem with taking the ancient myths and aligning them is that they do not all say the same things, regardless of the statements of Talbott, Cardona and company to the contrary. There are variations as not everyone’s memory is the same. No one’s mythology is the same as another. They claim that all societies proclaim this Saturn as the god at the North Pole – but what about the societies south of the equator? Could they have revered the god of the north that they could not even see?

Who knows?

Did the Maya refer to any of this in their mythology? Perhaps. There is the tale of the Hero Twins shooting Seven Macaw (the previous Sun) out of the World Tree. Some say Seven Macaw is another representation of the Big Dipper (Ursa Major) in the Northern Sky, so one could argue this is a tie-in. But that is about as far as the similarity goes.

If someone knows a better correlation, I would love to hear it.

Saturn as THE God

January 11, 2010

The prevalence of the planet Saturn in ancient myth has led many catastrophists to hypothesize about its role in the Solar System in the dark period of prehistory.

In case you may have forgotten, according to classic Greek and Roman mythology (among others), Saturn was the father of Jupiter (and the other Titans) and the King of the Gods – that is, after he took a sickle and castrated his own father, Uranus, to seize the throne. Saturn apparently decided to eat all his children but missed Jupiter, who was hiding somewhere. Jupiter came out of the shadows, overthrew his father, and then tied him up with cords and claimed the throne for his own.

Interestingly enough, we can still see those cords still wrapped around Saturn today.

How did the ancients know of this action? Saturn and Jupiter are so far away – yet still seen easily with the naked eye – that the details of such an encounter would have been lost. The only possible explanation (other than dismissing it as a “coincidence”) is that the ancients saw the action at a much closer location to the gas giant than we presently have.

This has led to a variety of competing theories nicknamed “the Saturn Model”, “the Saturn Hypothesis”, or “Saturnian Cosmology”.

Some hypothesize that our planet was in orbit around Saturn like Titan and its other moons – Saturn is seen as a “dark” binary partner of the Sun. Others see the planet Saturn locked into a position in a column of plasma (or such) over our north pole while the Sun lay to our south.

Interesting constructs, both of these theories. Some of these require stretching our understanding of the physical forces that hold the universe together. Velikovsky had envisioned a cosmos without gravitation.

Gravity is an interesting energy as there are many theories concerning it but nothing has been definitively proven – believe it or not. A lot of theories are out there though.

I mentioned this in my previous entry. See there for more on the electric universe theory and the work of Edward Leedskalnin.

Whether any of these theories are correct will have to wait a while until there is something definitive discovered to back them up. My primary concern here is the role of Saturn in the ancient cosmology.

Certain the planet was viewed as a god by many cultures and many around the world recorded his overthrow by his son, Jupiter. Were our ancestors actually close enough to see this drama unfold in the skies overhead?

They must have been because they recorded it, in many places, around the world, long before telecommunications would allow them to “get their stories straight”.

What the world was like when Saturn held rulership is unknown. But if the Aztec data is correct, that previous age would have lasted roughly 5,000 years. But that previous Mayan age had to do with the Sun.

Why is the Sun so rarely seen as the King of the Gods in ancient cultures? Certainly there are many who revered the Solar Disk but exceptionally few who had it as their chief deity.

I have always wondered why.

Perhaps it was because the Sun was static, unmoving – unlike the planets – and had a tendency to go out every 5,000 years or so.


January 8, 2010

Continuing on the Velikovsky theme, his premier volume, Worlds in Collision, not only challenged the cosmology of astronomers but also the chronology of historians.

Utilizing his comparisons of ancient myths around the world, he was able to establish a baseline for history. From this uniform beginning, he was able to establish a chronology for the ancient world, primarily the Middle East. Unfortunately, this did not match well with what the historians had already established as reflected in works like the multi-volume Cambridge Ancient History.

It seems Immanuel was not making friends anywhere within the scholarly world… except with a long friendship with that other “outsider” Albert Einstein. If I recall correctly, it took years before his work became accepted as well.

Anyway, even before his passing, many of his followers were questioning one part or another of his basic theory and striking out in new directions.

Today, these Neo-Catastrophists have a wide variety of theories circulating, all loosely based on Velikovsky’s work. Many of these concentrate on the historical chronologies while others expend their energies on reformulating the cosmological aspects of his work.

As I mentioned before, the earliest incarnation of his first volume was called Cosmos without Gravitation but was shortened at the request of the publisher to deal only with the events of the Exodus and the period immediately following.

From the physics angle, this concept of “no gravity” seems to defy the bedrock of Newton’s theories. But remember, it is still just a theory. A very workable theory – as it has gotten us to the moon – but still just a theory.

[An interesting sidenote to this issue is the work done by Edward Leedskalnin, a Latvian immigrant who built a castle of multi-ton stones by himself in the early twentieth century. When asked how he did it he explained it was through his use of “magnetic currents”. Scientists have studied his papers and concluded the man was a charlatan and a crackpot and could not have possibly built it… Yet it stands today.]

Some of Velikovsky’s disciples have developed a theory of an electric universe (Talbott, Cardona, Thornhill, Cochrane, et al) which is a follow up to his concept of a cosmos without gravitation. It is a fascinating theory and intersects this Mayan study in several respects. Primarily how they view the historical cosmological chaos as described by Velikovsky.

One further aspect of their theory is what has become known as “the Saturn Model”. This is a bit too complicated to get into at the time but I will address it in a future entry.

At this juncture I will say that it answers a lot of questions about the ancient myths but to me it seems to avoid many others. Perhaps as the theory evolves it will come to encompass answers to my objections as well.

But only time will tell.